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 PvP Needs Luvins - I choose to be evil in Xenimus 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 am
Posts: 67
Last played in 2008.

What's going on here? The way it is now, might as well have a WoW style duel system.

All I think when I see 2 people going -enemies. It's just now 1 might get jumped by people(+) hugging a safety square.

PvP should be encouraged away from the square. I swear the guards in Xenimus are getting paid for nothing! Our taxes taken from us are being wasted! There should be no fighting in town. Or if there is fighting, even a level 70 will run from a proper guard. Whoever hired the current guards don't pay them.



When PvP was open-world it created a special kind of Player. You would have to:

Become familiar with all hunting zones where you could kill someone
Become familiar with who you could and couldn't kill (good luck when you can't right click an invis, dispell was actually useful as a player hunting tool here)
Become used to thinking of unique ways to kill

As an example, there is a place in DS with drop walls. We called it dirt walls. It was basically mage marks and you would clear them invis'ed double starring all along the way.

Well, people tended to log off really fast at the sight of a PKer; and, in the case of Mage Marks, Mages teleport out instantly.

So, link chat would report some intel that someone was hunting mage marks. Someone would have a premark already inside of one of the walls that drop.

Long story short, the unsuspecting player trips EJ's trap to drop the wall and BOOM, a group of 5 people instantly PK Party. We had several victims join our link because they thought it was hilarious. Some people might not take it in the same stride. That was the freedom of Xenimus though, be good or evil, and your survival depended on how you reacted to these situations.

Did you grit your teeth and go and add 10 levels? Did you find some friends to go out into the world with to be safer? Did you rage quit?

I say the kind of player Xenimus needs is the one that adds 10 levels or gets some friends; and, I fear the one's that rage quit get the loudest voice.

I don't want to be a copycat, but WoW has an attitude, "if there is a PvP solution, we don't get involved".

It's always easier to remember the bad things. Some PKer in T3 graveyard killing people!! On no!!

That PKer is adding content to the game though, content that an NPC can't replicate.

The PKer who dominated a hunting zone added content by:

1) Made some of those players use other level zones & explore the world (i.e. screw this I'm going back to T1 GY or somewhere new)
2) Added a real sense of fear, rush, and just suspense to the game, always watching my back
3) Boosted the Economy by driving up the prices of Almus, Sanc Scrolls, Redos, Max Ammys, and Magic Bean Bags
4) Gave higher players who were the opposite kind of player something to do, i.e. kill the PKer

More points could be made for or against. The PKer added a lot of content that was stripped out. A PvP solution to low levels getting camped in T3 gy was a higher level coming in and wiping them out. If no one could do it, you had to level somewhere else. There was always a PvP solution though. Sometimes half the server would go after a PKer, and that ended their spree quickly.

I'm sure there are people who remember making circles in the GY while a higher level was there watching over 4-5 of you, that part of the game was special to Xenimus.

All of these things lead to gear being dropped. PKer's get gear from PKing, non PKers get gear from killing the PKers. A lot of times, dropping a PKer might lead to a HUGE cache of loot. This can no longer be a thing and I really miss that.

Adding level restrictions on PvP encourages less social involvement with PvP.

PvP in Xenimus works when people are forced to go somewhere to take RISK!

If I go to DS, the XP is better and so is the risk. Now it seems, most leveling zones are anti-pk. It has removed the chance for a clash of two different players to occurred. It's hard for Xenimus to develop new PKers when no one has any daily, weekly, and some monthly+ PKing experience below level 65. People get good at PvP when someone is pointing a Dirus Wand at them and they figure out how to get keep progressing in the game even with that Dirus Wand pointed at them.


Probably another mindless rant from a player who longs for Xenimus open world PvP again.

:3

"The world is free to do whatever you want, so one could fight with a wizard, and try to rely on magic as a fighter if they wished. Or perhaps create a character that is a fine blend of magic, and battle strength. All in all it is essential that skills or attributes are not looked on as trivial, as they have a varied and heavy impact on game play. And it is very important to remember that the game treats all actions as realistically as possible."

Those were some of the best words EJ Thayer has ever written. They are the best because it shows how much freedom we have in Xenimus. Paladins really are a fine blend of magic and might, others stick to battle strength. It shows you are free to do what you want. I quoted it also to point out that all actions are treated realistically as possible. If I'm a new player and I put a sword in my hand, it has to seem weird that they hit a guard or another player and nothing happens. They probably wouldn't even get the -enemies command right away.

I remember logging into Xenimus and hitting a T3 guard, last time I did that.

I miss that. I miss the bad. :twisted:

Hoping to be Evil in the Land of Xenimus,

Dbag

PS

Loving the Raids, loving seeing stuff in AH, graphics have improved some. I like the hills and height; but, in some places it feels weird. Also needs about 20% more dragons.


Fri May 18, 2018 4:56 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:00 am
Posts: 892
AMEN Iagree


Fri May 18, 2018 5:14 am
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 am
Posts: 67
Haha, I wish everyone yelled "AMEN" at that.

Just wanted to say that every time EJ tried to add more PvP, there was ALWAYS an option to not take that risk. You could just go to Anti PK server. You could just go -monsters because you are in a certain quadrant of a map. I will say that I missed out on those PvP weekends. Weekends don't add the content I talked about above though.

Even with past attempts, it's truly been since BEFORE original Anti-Pk Server where players where forced to accept the risk of an open world PvP Xenimus. *nostalgia drums* Xenimus Prime

I say that to credit EJ for trying to bring PvP back over the years.

I do NOT want to go back to the old days. I do NOT want the old bugs. I do want that old Green Dragon model though :lol:

Given the choice people enjoyed less risk on Anti-PK Servers; but, with some wanting to PK at the same-time. IMHO it was a viscous cycle that self eroded because no one was willing to risk leveling where true PvP, PKers, gear loss could occur.


EJ made Xenimus Prime which forced players to accept world PvP as part of the game when things started out, and that was a great thing. I don't think I'm the only person though, who enjoyed leveling on an Anti-PK server knowing full well someday I was going to DS and PvPing with the results :oops: hehe


Fri May 18, 2018 6:11 am
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 am
Posts: 67
Goldmine, those are major points.

https://web.archive.org/web/20030609011 ... mefaqs.htm

Quoting some from above
==============================
"IX: Game Play Tips...

If you decide to become evil, you will be forced to LIVE LIKE IT!!!. Its your chance to live the life of a true outcast. Evil cannot just walk around in the middle of good. Good people will delight in taking your life for the experience and points. And good towns people will not look to kindly upon you..such as city gaurds. An evil charachter will give good points to the person who kills him. Find a safe place for evil. You are an outcast. Dont be suprised if you are killed time after time when playing an evil charachter.

Don't kill a player and expect not to be revenged upon. The players are real people and don't take their deaths to lightly.

Try to stay on people's good side, they could prove to be worthy allies. Including the town's people.

Do not take actions too lightly.

Use food when not in battle to regain your stats.. its cheap.

Save money, and some skill points for things down the road.

Remember that the game is as realistic as possible. Play it that way."
==============================

When EJ says, "Its your chance to live the life of a true outcast." I want that back.

Yes Goldmine, I may lose +7 stats, but that's my choice to make. In the Q & A EJ states,
"
Q: Why are evil people looked down upon, and killed a lot. Isn't that a bit unfair?
A: If a character is evil, they have obviously been committing murder. In that respect, no, it's not unfair. Its realistic. Murderers don't just run around in cities and expect to go unharmed in real life either. It is very hard to keep an evil character alive and thriving. It is meant to be an added challenge. If you are really asking this question, after reading the rest of the directions your name is bob."

It's part of the added challenge.

As a shout to EJ, you once said:
==============================
"
Q: What is the point of being evil?
A: You are what you want to be. If people want to be evil.. they can. That is the point. Instead of just killing monsters, you can go raid towns in groups killing for pillage and plunder. You may have noticed that evil people are killed a lot. That's because they shouldn't murder people in broad daylight, and think they can jut sit in the middle of town and nobody will bother them. However it may carry some other hidden weights. If you like, try to create an evil character and see what might happen. You may find some advantages to it. Just remember that justice is delivered in Xenimus, as it would be in real life..."
==============================

EJ bring that back! Your own vision was so awesome. I have to say, "for pillage and plunder" please!!!! I have to say, "You may find some advantages to it"!! Yasss!!

Aside from loot, if the +7 stats for a good player is a thing, perhaps a +3 or +5 (not as many) to the players who have to live on the outskirts of town. If the Jelocian and Velanthra forces teamed up so much that they share the same towns, perhaps whatever made them team up together can be something hated players worship.

A hated shrine if you will, +3 all stats. My logic? "You may find some advantages to it" :twisted:

Remember evil people just sitting on the outskirts of town? My god I wish I could go into FP mode back then, I would have seen like 20 Aussies with swords and sticks with bad alignment bars.

I agree Goldmine, we have a lot now that seems to get in the way.

NDNT gear, I don't like the idea of not being able to lose your gear. Exceptions like a Xencon item.

Great risk, great reward, great responsibility. The lone hated wolf player might not ever raid, but they might gank you in the woods for that shiny raid armor.

Bags, redos, sanc scrolls, max ammys getting turned into daggers (or players reimbursed with in game gold base on how many in their storage) and having their drop rates changed to low levels with caps to how many can be spawned on the server according to Active Players at a time could help with gear never dropping.

Inventory should always be 100% drop in a world that's as realistic as possible.

It's one of those things where why can we go one direction but not the other?

Gear used to drop 100%, then it was just one even with no magic bean bag. I'm not saying we need full loot drop; but being hated and killing someone is hard work, if they don't have Magic Bean Bag on they should lose an item, no questions asked.

We need to head the other direction on Player Loot, Player XP loss on death, and perhaps adding major Durability loss to gear when you don't use an LSA.

I don't want the old days where you dropped everything that was probably too harsh; but, I was hoping the Pendulum could swing back a little on the things mentioned above.


Fri May 18, 2018 7:29 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:40 pm
Posts: 3579
Location: U.S.A.
Best way to add danger is REMOVE the thousand of sanc scrolls, max ammies, rediyus ammies from the game alreay.

There is ZEROOOO danger when you never die due to spamming of those items non stop.

_________________
"I'm not playing til 60-70cap ej!"


Fri May 18, 2018 12:35 pm
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Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 6:37 am
Posts: 655
[quote="Dbag"]Last played in 2008.

What's going on here? The way it is now, might as well have a WoW style duel system.

All I think when I see 2 people going -enemies. It's just now 1 might get jumped by people(+) hugging a safety square.

PvP should be encouraged away from the square. I swear the guards in Xenimus are getting paid for nothing! Our taxes taken from us are being wasted! There should be no fighting in town. Or if there is fighting, even a level 70 will run from a proper guard. Whoever hired the current guards don't pay them.



When PvP was open-world it created a special kind of Player. You would have to:

Become familiar with all hunting zones where you could kill someone
Become familiar with who you could and couldn't kill (good luck when you can't right click an invis, dispell was actually useful as a player hunting tool here)
Become used to thinking of unique ways to kill

As an example, there is a place in DS with drop walls. We called it dirt walls. It was basically mage marks and you would clear them invis'ed double starring all along the way.

Well, people tended to log off really fast at the sight of a PKer; and, in the case of Mage Marks, Mages teleport out instantly.

So, link chat would report some intel that someone was hunting mage marks. Someone would have a premark already inside of one of the walls that drop.

Long story short, the unsuspecting player trips EJ's trap to drop the wall and BOOM, a group of 5 people instantly PK Party. We had several victims join our link because they thought it was hilarious. Some people might not take it in the same stride. That was the freedom of Xenimus though, be good or evil, and your survival depended on how you reacted to these situations.

Did you grit your teeth and go and add 10 levels? Did you find some friends to go out into the world with to be safer? Did you rage quit?

I say the kind of player Xenimus needs is the one that adds 10 levels or gets some friends; and, I fear the one's that rage quit get the loudest voice.

I don't want to be a copycat, but WoW has an attitude, "if there is a PvP solution, we don't get involved".

It's always easier to remember the bad things. Some PKer in T3 graveyard killing people!! On no!!

That PKer is adding content to the game though, content that an NPC can't replicate.

The PKer who dominated a hunting zone added content by:

1) Made some of those players use other level zones & explore the world (i.e. screw this I'm going back to T1 GY or somewhere new)
2) Added a real sense of fear, rush, and just suspense to the game, always watching my back
3) Boosted the Economy by driving up the prices of Almus, Sanc Scrolls, Redos, Max Ammys, and Magic Bean Bags
4) Gave higher players who were the opposite kind of player something to do, i.e. kill the PKer

More points could be made for or against. The PKer added a lot of content that was stripped out. A PvP solution to low levels getting camped in T3 gy was a higher level coming in and wiping them out. If no one could do it, you had to level somewhere else. There was always a PvP solution though. Sometimes half the server would go after a PKer, and that ended their spree quickly.

I'm sure there are people who remember making circles in the GY while a higher level was there watching over 4-5 of you, that part of the game was special to Xenimus.

All of these things lead to gear being dropped. PKer's get gear from PKing, non PKers get gear from killing the PKers. A lot of times, dropping a PKer might lead to a HUGE cache of loot. This can no longer be a thing and I really miss that.

Adding level restrictions on PvP encourages less social involvement with PvP.

PvP in Xenimus works when people are forced to go somewhere to take RISK!

If I go to DS, the XP is better and so is the risk. Now it seems, most leveling zones are anti-pk. It has removed the chance for a clash of two different players to occurred. It's hard for Xenimus to develop new PKers when no one has any daily, weekly, and some monthly+ PKing experience below level 65. People get good at PvP when someone is pointing a Dirus Wand at them and they figure out how to get keep progressing in the game even with that Dirus Wand pointed at them.


Probably another mindless rant from a player who longs for Xenimus open world PvP again.

:3

"The world is free to do whatever you want, so one could fight with a wizard, and try to rely on magic as a fighter if they wished. Or perhaps create a character that is a fine blend of magic, and battle strength. All in all it is essential that skills or attributes are not looked on as trivial, as they have a varied and heavy impact on game play. And it is very important to remember that the game treats all actions as realistically as possible."

Those were some of the best words EJ Thayer has ever written. They are the best because it shows how much freedom we have in Xenimus. Paladins really are a fine blend of magic and might, others stick to battle strength. It shows you are free to do what you want. I quoted it also to point out that all actions are treated realistically as possible. If I'm a new player and I put a sword in my hand, it has to seem weird that they hit a guard or another player and nothing happens. They probably wouldn't even get the -enemies command right away.

I remember logging into Xenimus and hitting a T3 guard, last time I did that.

I miss that. I miss the bad. :twisted:

Hoping to be Evil in the Land of Xenimus,

Dbag

PS

Loving the Raids, loving seeing stuff in AH, graphics have improved some. I like the hills and height; but, in some places it feels weird. Also needs about 20% more dragons.[/quote]

AMEN, i enjoy your storytelling lol.

But man those were the days... it made you want to become a pker LOL. It is what attracted me.


Fri May 18, 2018 12:51 pm
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These are the arguments of the few, most people don't want full PvP with 100% inventory drop. That is why the game has evolved to where it is. Any time in the past where I have added more danger and PvP it just facilitates some assholes killing much less powerful players. That is not really PvP.


Fri May 18, 2018 1:30 pm
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ejthayer wrote:
These are the arguments of the few, most people don't want full PvP with 100% inventory drop. That is why the game has evolved to where it is. Any time in the past where I have added more danger and PvP it just facilitates some assholes killing much less powerful players. That is not really PvP.


And THIS is exactly why the small amount of griefers want "full pvp". That is griefing. Also they can already go full pvp with -all. They just want to pk players without losing jeloc or any kind of penalty.

_________________
"I'm not playing til 60-70cap ej!"


Fri May 18, 2018 2:13 pm
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:37 pm
Posts: 48
99% of the people that do want full pk and inventory drop current players, usually have one intention greed and grief. in the past when this game was first made pking wasnt for greed since the game wasnt so revolving around gear, it was revolving around levels. this era is last past 10 years or so are all infantalism manor, one trying exploit what the game has , Special people exploiting things then reporting it when its turned around on them.

I think implimenting full pvp is still possible or you want to be evil is possible but i think by doing so should have repocution . you want to go around and pk people there should be a set range in level and not 10 levels what th epvp points is based on. Shouldnt be so easy to pk someone and just hop back on and sq and log off , impliment a cooldown pvp and evil people should not have the benefit of safety , and allow of delevling a character when they are evil just like back in the day

i think its easy to also blend both pvp and non pvp in the game .. anyone that would like to pvp and pk should not get jeloc at all and should always stay in pvp mode all the time , people that do earn jeloc are immune to pvp this will set the leveling field and advantage of pvp with and without jeloc and at the same time people can be just playing the game as pve if they have jeloc and instantly lose the stat once you enter pvp. but it should not go both ways once the account goes to pvp maybe theyshoud not be able to go jeloc anymore


Last edited by truth on Fri May 18, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri May 18, 2018 2:25 pm
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 am
Posts: 67
I see what your saying EJ and Loki, even by my own Dirt Walls story I can't deny I was an a**hole there. Can't deny I made new friends, too.

If someone is killing less powerful players, that's really really evil EJ. Perhaps there could be a penalty like you lose PvP XP because you didn't set a -min Level to something not too far below you.

I don't see why the whole system needed to go though.

The server can keep track of kills, nothing wrong with the Generals of the major towns issuing Bounties that grant extra PvP XP on players with bounties.

Nothing wrong with have an evil PKer losing 1 level of regular XP & pvp XP for being killed while having a bounty on their head.

What one calls an a**hole; some just call evil. There are evil people in the world, Xenimus can punish them in so many ways so that in the end there will be justice. I mean if the server detects someone just raging all over, perhaps NPC's track them down as well. I would argue that in order to be evil, one has to be an a**hole.

At the same time I don't read your emails, my opinion probably is in the 5% and I don't know what people are asking for. Thanks for noticing me Senpai! Thanks for the reply.


Fri May 18, 2018 2:26 pm
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