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 what a raid leecher is and what can we do about it? 
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:22 pm
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assgoblin wrote:
so is someone who just got 65-70 with 0 raid gear a leecher? I'm sure 10 out of 10 of you will say yes but everyone has been there and the chances of that person to get a item is slim to none. so you will continue to see said "leecher" at a raid using a bow because he dies in 1 hit even with a vish. this is why we need a better loot system at raids because I have 3 lvl 70s with 0 raid gear and go often and time after time I get 0 items no matter what I do and on what char I'm on. this is why people NEED to get at least something from the raids to work towards a piece of gear. and every time something is wrong people are quick to blame the poor. and its also so crazy seeing the same people get items raid after raid and they just put the items in storg because they do not need them


If said level 65-70 has 0 gear he shouldn't be walking into the only end-game zone and expecting to walk away with end-game gear. We don't need better loot system at raids we need better loot system from mobs to help casual players and hardcore players alike gear up so they ALL can do raids.

And don't claim you can't do raids at 65 with no gear because I know 100% for a fact you can start tanking any boss at 65 with diabolic plate/baraw helm/diab shield/imex gloves/VM's. Then use a Vishi+GP and be tank spec, I did it at 65 on my Warrior and on my pally. I tanked all bosses in game other than quon/linay with that exact setup at 65. And it only got easier once I hit 70.

Also I'd like to point out I have not gotten a single drop from a raid in over 4 months. That's just how it goes.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:27 am
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Zannah wrote:
And don't claim you can't do raids at 65 with no gear because I know 100% for a fact you can start tanking any boss at 65 with diabolic plate/baraw helm/diab shield/imex gloves/VM's. Then use a Vishi+GP and be tank spec, I did it at 65 on my Warrior and on my pally. I tanked all bosses in game other than quon/linay with that exact setup at 65. And it only got easier once I hit 70.


Yeah melees are fine then. Why do people keep saying they cant do DD when they can tank bosses at 65 in 20plat of gear? I was doing the same on THOR in same setup (except I had ndnt dirus armor ) and tanmked vbross/grim/nath (with heals)/spider. Only ones that hurt were cron and never tried linay/quon because theyre useless.

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:35 am
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I think it would help if melee dps could participate more than just shooting arrows. Some sort of aggro system or taunt skill would help.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:47 am
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Loki wrote:
Zannah wrote:
And don't claim you can't do raids at 65 with no gear because I know 100% for a fact you can start tanking any boss at 65 with diabolic plate/baraw helm/diab shield/imex gloves/VM's. Then use a Vishi+GP and be tank spec, I did it at 65 on my Warrior and on my pally. I tanked all bosses in game other than quon/linay with that exact setup at 65. And it only got easier once I hit 70.


Yeah melees are fine then. Why do people keep saying they cant do DD when they can tank bosses at 65 in 20plat of gear? I was doing the same on THOR in same setup (except I had ndnt dirus armor ) and tanmked vbross/grim/nath (with heals)/spider. Only ones that hurt were cron and never tried linay/quon because theyre useless.


Not sure what you're getting at, you're saying you can tank bosses w/ heals and because of that melee's are fine in bottom and top DD hunting mobs?

Also I'd like to point out that it is NOT EASY to do this at 65 but it is very well possible. You basically spam med the whole time but that does not change the fact that it's possible to TANK.

Now on the other hand going DD on a melee is a completely different story. You can't stand there and spam meds AND deal damage to kill mobs at the same time. You are swinging at bosses vs. trying to multi against mobs. Completely different scenario Loki.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:50 am
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Feral Child wrote:
I think it would help if melee dps could participate more than just shooting arrows. Some sort of aggro system or taunt skill would help.


Thats another funny part. These 2 are talking about leeching but 90% of the paladins/dws/warriors in game are "leeching" by using a ranger bow and shooting from the sidelines without doing anything to participate, even the ones who are talking against leeches.

They don't mention it because most of their link uses bows from the side while 1 melee tanks (the most geared one).

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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:52 am
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Loki wrote:
Feral Child wrote:
I think it would help if melee dps could participate more than just shooting arrows. Some sort of aggro system or taunt skill would help.


Thats another funny part. These 2 are talking about leeching but 90% of the paladins/dws/warriors in game are "leeching" by using a ranger bow and shooting from the sidelines without doing anything to participate, even the ones who are talking against leeches.

They don't mention it because most of their link uses bows from the side while 1 melee tanks (the most geared one).


Well bows are a bit of a different story, I think EJ needs to change how bows work at bosses personally.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:57 am
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You do realize that none of those examples are actually leeching? Leeching is when someone expects something for nothing, it has nothing to do with how strong you are or whether you can tank the boss.

If someone is part of a group, regardless of how they got there, or who they got there with ... and they truly make a serious attempt to help kill the boss, they are not leeching.

One example of leeching would be someone who doesn't participate in the event (even if they are there the entire time) until right before the boss dies.

Not everyone can successfully tank a boss, and it does have a negative impact when the tank fails. Also, the tank seems to have a higher chance to receive an item.

While leeches are an issue, personally I feel that people who purposely try to disrupt the event are a larger issue.

Originally I thought that these bosses would make people work together to achieve a common goal, boy was I wrong.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:56 am
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[quote="PrincessNesbianna"]You do realize that none of those examples are actually leeching? Leeching is when someone expects something for nothing, it has nothing to do with how strong you are or whether you can tank the boss.

If someone is part of a group, regardless of how they got there, or who they got there with ... and [i]they truly make a serious attempt to help kill the boss[/i], they are not leeching.

One example of leeching would be someone who doesn't participate in the event (even if they are there the entire time) until right before the boss dies.

Not everyone can successfully tank a boss, and it does have a negative impact when the tank fails. Also, the tank seems to have a higher chance to receive an item.

While leeches are an issue, personally I feel that people who purposely try to disrupt the event are a larger issue.

Originally I thought that these bosses would make people work together to achieve a common goal, boy was I wrong.[/quote]


all the numbers i made are what make up a "leech"

one alone isnt enough to qualify a person for it


bosses COULD make people work together

IF having other people there didnt impact the chance for oneself to get loot

problem is more people = less chance for loot

and getting loot is already astronomically slim since boss rarily drops loot

most of the times they drop nothing


its a vicious circle



but it could easily be broken but only by ej

since he would have to change how the boss loot works


Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:58 am
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LiftingNerd wrote:

all the numbers i made are what make up a "leech"

one alone isnt enough to qualify a person for it


bosses COULD make people work together

IF having other people there didnt impact the chance for oneself to get loot

problem is more people = less chance for loot

and getting loot is already astronomically slim since boss rarily drops loot

most of the times they drop nothing


its a vicious circle



but it could easily be broken but only by ej

since he would have to change how the boss loot works


I suppose we could argue all night, but no, they truly are not the definition of leeching. That doesn't mean that I agree with people doing all of them, but they are not leeching. If the question is whether they are actively helping you get a high level drop, than I agree with you. In your case, you have the gear, the experience, the ability and the group that can probably do it more efficiently than a larger group, and the smaller the group - the higher the odds of obtaining something.

So in your case, the more people there are, the smaller the incentive for you to participate. I get it.

Instanced bosses makes your world perfect. No need to spend time checking the boss, you just get your group together and go do it, without any hassle.

The larger question is whether that helps everyone. I do think that several groups will have the capability to manage it, and I'm sure all would like it. What about the people who are not in the big (or strong) groups, does it actually help them?

My personal opinion is that it would be much better if all boss participants received a token. Enough tokens and you can turn them in for 1 piece of gear. That takes the luck out of the equation, everyone has a reason to want to help. Just my 2 cents which probably isn't worth even that.


Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:16 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:00 am
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yes that would be one of the good way to go


Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:18 am
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