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Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 4:15 pm
Posts: 290
Ok, we ran the experiment. It's played itself out, and a lot of the recent purposed changes by everyone's favorite admin have not worked out. People don't enjoy them, and we need to revert or at least tone back.

1) Bosses. This one change to make bosses harder made a lot of people quit. They were willing to spend a certain amount of time farming for potions, and time going to the bosses for a small chance at an upgrade. It was a path forward that people could use to look for upgrades. We just simply went over the line on this. Fine we don't want people 3 manning bosses, but we don't want people quitting because they're so hard that it's to much of a chore. I had by far the largest link in the game at the time of this change. I easily lost over 50% of active players from my link on this one change.

2) Monsters. I don't know why this one was done, but monster power compared to player power seems so out of whack right now. You used to could just chill out and farm, but hunting now is like an active pvp constantly. Some classes literally can't hunt at all. Some of the strongest characters in the game can be killed by what I would consider low level nothing mobs if they aren't actively paying attention. This has become super tedious, and there was never any real reason for it to be this difficult to just normally farm.

3) Player strength. Characters are a shell of what they were this time last year. It's super demotivating to work years for something, have it taken away, and then the ability to ever reach back to those levels taken from you. Jeloc nerf, gear nerf, speed nerf, and base stat nerfs. It would be okay if the game felt like it was working mostly the same but with smaller numbers, but everything is drastically different, and the game feels clunky because of it.

4) Items. We were suppose to fix the economy in game by wiping tons of perfect duped high end gear. We've some how managed to make it worse. We've taken all high end gear, and made it worse than normal every day merchant drops. People aren't even interested in buying high end gear because their diabolic and ominex gear is better in a lot of cases. Gear is suppose to scale, you are suppose to be stronger with more gear, you should be rewarded for getting higher end gear, and it should give you an advantage. This idea that all gear should be more or less equal so everyone can compete was a horrible idea. No more people can compete than before, and gear is meaningless. This needs to be reverted or drastically scaled back. We should have only ever changed some of the few outlier pieces of gear that were to strong. We took runes from a place where you could get 500 armor, to a place where you can get 80. Everyone agree'd they should be nerfed when they came out, but, I never thought I would say this, maybe we should try a moderate 50% nerf.

These are an absolute plague to the game. Every one of these changes were predictably bad, and they were implemented anyways. We've run the experiment. Can we please make some adjustments. This is less to E.J. and more to the community. You need to tell E.J. that these are a problem. He does listen to people, but you need to have a voice in the conversation. If you let questionable people talk for you then you get situations like this.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:40 am

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:48 am
Posts: 97
I only agree with point 1. Bosses have to much hp at the moment and should spawn atleast 2 times a day. People from europe almost never get to see bosses because of the timer difference.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:52 am

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:47 am
Posts: 41
Remove level reqs past 24 to equip. Everything took at turn for the worse when all the stats and spells were tweaked. High hp to deal with damage was cut out.

Orig 7 props and better hp/mp and extra resists would work better. We never needed extra cast and amd and all that, hence why there is such a huge gap between players. Leave the better props for built ins on items you acquire.
Boots and cape were a great idea, all the extra we need.

Additional props should be orig 7 plus one random 8th. Adjust the hp and mp back up, and make room for better resists.
Then you wouldn’t need to pop vish and glows to do normal
Quests etc.

There are many new things in xenimus that are really cool, i guess it’s just hard for ej to balance it. A lot of it works really well and some things don’t work quite as well. More props and more this and more that isn’t necessarily better.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:44 am

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:40 pm
Posts: 6552
Location: U.S.A.
I disagree with everything there except the bosses being too hard. But then again no 1 has the gear they had before to do them.

Do not revert any changes for nolifers to continue to gain while no one else does.

No it didn't make people quit. What made people quit was people like you abusing every aspect of the game.

Hey you g-guys!
Road to 7k.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:06 pm

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:08 pm
Posts: 34
I disagree with all of this.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:19 pm

Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 1:52 pm
Posts: 43
[quote="Loki"]I disagree with everything there except the bosses being too hard. But then again no 1 has the gear they had before to do them.

Do not revert any changes for nolifers to continue to gain while no one else does.

No it didn't make people quit. What made people quit was people like you abusing every aspect of the game.[/quote]
Please dont derail the thread and accuse people of actions thank you.

I agree with 1 and 2, considering how strong so many ultras are, considering just how difficult things like fierce are compared to how it used to be. I also agree with 4, it makes no sense whatsoever to have lower level gear be more optimal than higher level gear. And at one point, this entire community AND EJ was on board with that train of thought because that's why then Super Sanctus Shield was changed. There was a point in time when it was used by every melee at every level over every other shield because it offered like 8% or 10% AMP.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:31 pm

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:47 pm
Posts: 701
Another great post by you pal.... good work.

I agree with every thing said here. A lot of people have attested the games hardships on smaller changes like jeloc being reduced and us being wiped, but truth be told... the internal changes to the game are what killed it. I'll go in order...

1) Bosses. The bosses hp count is simply too high. For a game with a small *diminishing* player base, it is unrealistic to practically require a certain amount of people at the raid. The idea behind adding the hp to bosses was to promote a more inclusive environment between the hardcore players and casual players where the hardcore player sort of needed the casual player to be there or their cost would become too much. This theory is great when the rest of the game is fun to play. If the casual player is playing as much as they can and is pushing 1-2 hours a day.. they would definitely feel the love by having players say "terroth is up lets go do it". That was the idea... unfortunately, the game is at a pretty bad state right now and so therefore the casual player is playing for 20 minutes a day and this makes bosses tooooooo big of a time/cost sink to be worth it. You throw in the item nerf at higher tiers of gear + the low drop rate from bosses and it is game over for raiding. (Personally, I still think raiding is dumb and we should have other ways to get our gear but that's just me. )

2) Monsters. Monsters have 100% been strengthened and this has made the game feel extremely unenjoyable. Obviously I play ranger and there are so many times where I die to stuff that I just shouldn't be dying too. I die in 3-4-5 beams to the low veil mobs... something that I could have done naked prior to the changes to monster levels. Ultra level monsters have also been increased tremendously... You notice this in places like fierce. The mobs in fierce have always done pretty good but now it's on another level. Most people require a vish/gp to do fierce SLOWLY, whereas before if you were to spend the gold on gp/vish, you were practically guaranteeing you getting fierce. Now it's still a tough battle even with those potions popped.

3) Player strength. I think there are certain classes that have lost their ability to practically play the game and it kind of blows... This could be because of the monster buffs though. Some changes did occur to certain classes but I'm fairly certain the monster buffs just overcame the strength of certain classes. In terms of pvp... there is something wrong but I can't really pinpoint it. If your gear allows you to be strong, you're god. If you're weak because you don't have the insane gear, you lose. Best way I can put it. I don't think I've lost a single PVP to someone who isn't in high tier gear. Now read that carefully because I'm not in tremendous gear myself and I can easily beat people who have a little bit more gear than me... but there's a threshold that is being met that makes it so where once people get that threshold the chances of beating them go from practically 100% to around 25%. Pretty weird stuff.

4) The item changes were done incorrectly. The items need to be looked at individually to make sure that it is more consistent. Players should still feel that they are being rewarded by acquiring the higher end gear but they shouldn't be able to overcome huge skill gaps because of their gear. I'd guess that was the intention of the change. There are far too many cases where the higher leveled pieces of gear are missing crucial stats that make the items worth using in the first place. I brought up the case with bows. Serpent bow has only 5 shot speed, in comparison to a bols/triton/super dirus bow which has 6. This makes me want to use a bols more than a serpent bow because there are certain animations you can get with a higher shot speed bow. To be competitive... I need to have that shot speed so I'd prefer to use a lower tier bow (assuming they're the same props.) ( and before people point out "rip don't you use a serpent bow.. yes I do but it's because it's the best propped bow I have... and I'm honestly really broke so I can't get a better bow lol)

I agree with practically everything. I'd love for things to change as well.

Stop being soft.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:57 pm

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am
Posts: 177
lf raid carry

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:21 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:40 pm
Posts: 6552
Location: U.S.A.
I enjoy the changes except from the bosses but I dont have enough time to nolife look for bosses like the jobless.

Move forward, not backwards. Add more and new content. Hire help outside of the Xenimus community for find some people that will work for "free" with a legitimate contract to protect your work.

Hey you g-guys!
Road to 7k.

Last edited by Loki on Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:29 pm

Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 2:04 am
Posts: 223
Here I go again with the long post:

1) Agree. EJ's idea of making bosses harder was to juice them with more HP which doesn't make them more interesting or difficult, it just makes them take longer. There is no reason why a boss should take 10+ people and take 20 minutes of basically auto attacking it and chances are you leave the encounter with nothing to show for it. Miserable.

2) Agree. I've seen the argument that monsters being harder is aa way to combat botting, but really it's not. It started off as enemies getting loaded with flamma and other spells to discourage mass grouping, then calvaria (and enemies all over 2.0) now have dispel which just feels awful, and ends with any enemy that can cast a beam will nearly one-shot you. This is the case for basically all parts of the game from warlocks in T3 castle all the way into DD. The knob was changed too hard and is likely just an emerging consequence of all the scaling changes that EJ put through without testing them first.

3) Mixed. I agree that players should feel stronger as they progress their character. The question of how big the gaps I think is the issue. When it's too big, it feels unfair. When they are too small, it feels pointless. While EJ has been putting out a ton of balance updates, I can't say with good faith that any of them were positive changes besides some outlying items like runes. When those changes are made in tandem with game-wide scaling and monster difficulty changes, it does feel extremely bad to log in and feel like half the character you used to be.

4) Mostly agree, see above. On the one hand, outlying items need to be balanced. On the other, EJ is not capable of doing this for whatever reason. The rabble coming in to him is "X is strong, nerf!" so he murders it nine times out of ten and calls it a day. I agree that more a more level-handed approach to balancing needs to be taken, but you also cannot balance if you don't know that the baseline should be. There are no baselines in-mind for this game whatsoever, so you cannot balance anything really. It's spinning the wheels without having a destination to arrive at. We don't know how strong a wizard is intended to be, or a how much damage a monster is supposed to do, or how long a boss is supposed to take to kill. Without knowing the targets to hit (The intent for designs), then you cannot really make educated suggestions. Because of this, item/class/spell/enemy balance will be all over the place forevermore. That of course is not mentioning the degenerate behavior like duping, or botting, or whatever else is going on behind the scenes which affects the player economy.

As much as I would like to say that what we are doing is experimenting, I don't think we are. Can't really put that on player feedback because if you look at Xen2.0, most of the things you've mentioned here as problems are doubled down on over there. Just take the chest pull fiasco for more evidence of this. Plenty of suggestions about that came around but what was ultimately done? The bare minimum? Several steps back? That is not the players' fault. EJ was offered solutions and alternatives, he chose to take none. Fixed the backdoor with some walls, job done.

That's what he legitimately thinks is good and you can't take that responsibility from him. Countless suggestion and discussion threads get ignored, spammed, trolled, derailed, locked, and/or deleted. Discord chats are chaotic, but even when they are productive the most that we get out of them are some live "fixes" and then silence for 1-2 months before the next session. As much as some people would like to blame "the discord crew" or whatever, even those people are not listened to. Sure there are some stinkers out there in the audience who rack up the post count by repeating "Better things are not possible" or "Everything is fine stop complaining" like broken records, but what makes it into the game are usually not correlated with what is best for players let alone what they are asking for besides some buffs/nerfs. These are not serious people and should not be taken seriously.

Basically, EJ needs serious help. He has to accept the help if we want to get anywhere ever. Call them interns, call them whatever you want. He needs them to make his game properly because he is unable to on his own.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:31 pm
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